#KnowYourNeighbour: In Talks With Ali- Shah Ladha

Tell us something about yourself.

Currently I’m working in this family business of construction development; we deal in infra-development, as in bridges and sea structures. I joined my father in 2006, and left for my MBA in 2012 in Canada, after which I came back to work with him again. I’m also running a parallel company alongside.

Your father is from India and your mother is from Pakistan, and you’re connected to Pakistan with your birth in Karachi and your maternal family is in Pakistan. How exactly did they meet?

It’s a funny story. My entire family was earlier based in Bombay, and my maternal grandfather had to move to Pakistan after the partition, and was working in various businesses there. Still, they kept coming to India since their families were split across the borders. My parents’ families were closely connected. This one time, my mother was visiting India when she was 13 or 14, and my father had to undergo a kidney stone removal operation. No one else in my family besides my mother knew English, and she had to be the one to write a leave letter for his college, and that was when my father started liking her.

Do you visit Pakistan often?

I have never been able to visit Karachi after I came back to India after my birth. By law, since my father is Indian, my mother was told in Karachi that I had to get an Indian passport, after which I came back. However, since my birth certificate mentioned Karachi, I was told in India that I had to get a Pakistani passport. This was 1984, and I struggled with a citizenship till 2001. Then, I got a red certificate, which enabled me to get an Indian passport.

Since you faced a problem with citizenship, what do you think can be done to ease the process of getting a visa for either country ?

Honestly, I don’t feel what we feel matters to either governments, but I think people like you are trying to bridge the gap between the two countries. I have faced a lot of stereotypes for being born in Karachi, even those coming from my best of friends. I couldn’t get a US visa for a vacation because I was born in Karachi. The US consulate usually questions you rigorously, and all of it works on the basis of stereotypes, despite the fact that I have studied in Canada. The experience has been frustrating. I have been to 15 other countries, but I have never been questioned as much as I get questioned here because of having been born in Karachi.

The image of a Pakistani Indian is extremely deceiving when it comes to a governmental and administrative viewpoint. When I meet a Pakistani in another country, however, we talk immediately. So, there are places where we have grown with our relationship with a growing awareness, and a fact that we are finally talking about this. It would be better if a media frenzy around creating an image for a Pakistani or Indian across the borders would stop. The friction that has been created between the two countries is non-existent outside of India, and people from both countries get along really well. My friends’ parents have disliked them staying with me as roommates because I was born in Karachi, even though my friends are okay with it. Yet, I have cousins in Pakistan who love India- they love Bollywood, and we love their food. It’s a completely different picture out there.

Have you ever got an experience of Pakistani culture?

Well, it’s all basically the same. They watch our movies, we watch their TV shows. My father tried a whole 6 years too woo my mother and convince her to marry him. The people aren’t that different, it’s just the stereotype being created by the media. I think even think some of the politicians are trying to bridge the gap, but the media has way too much access to manipulating public opinion. People in general, on the other hand, always ask us about Pakistan and how it’s like on the other side of the border.

There are two sides of the media, however- on social media, which citizens in general influence, while there are commercial ones who try to change our opinion otherwise. What role does social media, according to you, play a role in forming public opinion?

I have friends out in Karachi whom I’ve met when they come to India. I maintain a connection with them through social media, which is a window to each other’s lives. All of us look forward to knowing about each other, and it works both ways; everyone looks for improved relationships. Social media is definitely the best way to break the ice. Social media is the voice of the people, yet commercial media now uses it to manipulate public opinion on to the other side. So many people lose lives on the other side of the border, or in the entire world due to this stereotyping, and most of that goes ignored in mainstream media.

What do you think is the common man’s role in improving the relationship between the two countries?

All of this works on a larger, global understanding and removing stereotypes. Take, for example, the notion of Jihad. It is widely misunderstood and limited to terrorism, changing what a lot of things mean to Islam. Jihad doesn’t mean killing- it means sacrificing at your own comfort for the greater good, and you undertake it if you can take a step down so others can benefit of it. Islam is all about peace, and a lot of distorted laws such as Sharia and Burqa law weren’t so rigid, but had a very relevant role in the times they were formed. It is very important to get rid of misconceptions and ignorance; you must understand before forming an opinion, and that is very important for the common man. Everyone’s first religion is humanity, and social and political issues can be get rid of as soon as you get rid of the ignorance and care about each other more. It is important for us to try and look beyond commercialized image creation and listen to voices coming from all sides.

You have talked about your friends playfully teasing you about being from Karachi. Yet, reiterating stereotypes creates some sort of preconceptions which reinforce them. Our nationalism chapters some years ago, did not call out Pakistan as an enemy state, but now they do, and these notions grow into bigger catastrophes. What can we do in our education system and civil society to solve this problem?

Well, as kids, it is our parents who firstly educated us on being good to our neighbours. Pakistan is our neighbour country, why cannot we have good relations with them? Someone has to try and take the initiative and make peace and have a good rapport with them. This needs to be taught in school, and to become a good citizen of the country, your first path to follow has to be humanity. If you’re not a good human, what is the point of worshipping? At the end of the day, you have to answer to the same God, and even if you’re not religious, you’re still human and you should be following that.

You’re in the business sector. Do you think there’s a way to make things better between India and Pakistan through trade?

We do actually help each other through agriculture. There are certain sectors, such as the export of rice, where Pakistan does much better than us. Any business connection is built upon a collective alliance. Pakistan is a developing country as well, and has a lot of scope in business. Since there are a lot of political crises in Pakistan, there are a lot of opportunities there for trade, and I’m not being selfish here since this works both ways. We always have to consider safety issues due to political friction between the two countries.

Considering we have these multiple checks even for luggage between the two countries, do you think all of this is based on an image-creation due to the rhetoric of terrorism and its association with Pakistan?

Well, I have honestly no idea why things have to be this way. I applied for a passport for the first time in 1996, and when I was being questioned during the procedure, the Indian official asked me how I came to India. My instant reaction was telling him that I took a flight. I had no conceptions of what he was really trying to get at, because there was none of that image-creation in my mind. Obviously, he was very confused, and eventually rejected my passport appeal. How I came back was none of his concern. The problem here is that we as citizens aren’t aware of our rights, and even if we are aware, there is no respect for them. The Indian immigration office even doubted that I would have a Pakistani passport when I had to go to Amsterdam. I told him I felt ashamed that being a citizen of this country, I get questioned here more than anywhere else in the world.

Any words for warmongers?

At what cost are you asking for war? You are not only wasting citizen money and the government’s money on sheer killing. Ask the soldiers you claim to speak for if they want to give their lives away for grudges you hold while not fighting for them yourselves. It’s very easy to order and make decisions, but you understand what is right only when you come to execute them.